Пуштуны

asan-kaygy

Цензор
Сейчас заинтересовался этногенезом пуштунов. Очень интересный народ. У них сохранилось родоплеменное деление.
Есть ли интересные монографии по их этногенезу. Водневу читал.
 

Alexy

Цензор
А что именно Водневой? Есть ли оно в электр виде?

Как я понимаю, многие афганские племена происходят от тюрок халаджей (они же хильджи, и от этого же название происходит название афганского племени гильзаи)
 

asan-kaygy

Цензор
Диссертацию. Версия о происхождении гиззаев от хильджи мне кажеться не слишком обоснованной, просто авторитет Бартольда сделал свое дело.
 

Alexy

Цензор
А разве хильджи не в Афганистане долгое время жили?
И
разве соврем исследователи придерживаются, другого, чем ВВ Бартольд мнения?
 

asan-kaygy

Цензор
Видите ли очень мало ученных занималось этногенезом пуштунов, и каждая высказанная точка зрения это голос в пустыне.
А прибавьте к этому авторитет Бартоьда.
 

Alexy

Цензор
А когда пуштуны приняли ислам?
Они же раньше (чуть ли не до 18 в?) жили только в Сулеймановых горах в соврем Пакистане

Какие народы до них жили в долине р Кабул и в г Кабул?Вряд ли же одни татжики (которые туда явно пришли никак не раньше Махмуда газневи)?

Какие народы до Пуштунов в районе Кандагара?
 
Из книги JP Ferrier "History of the Afghans", которая есть на archive.org:

The origin of the Afghans, which is involved in obscurity, has given rise to a variety of opinions, and it is not easy to adopt any one in particular. Some pretend that they are descended from the soldiers of Alexander the Great, whom he left in these comitries after he had conquered them; and from some Greek colonists who, under the kings that succeeded that emperor, subsequently joined these descendants of his victorious legions. Others affirm that the Copts of Egypt, the Chaldaeans, and even the Armenians, were their ancestors; but the majority of Eastern writers consider them to be the descendants of one of the ten tribes of Israel—and this is the opinion of the Afghans themselves. Finally, a few authors assure us that this nation is not of Jewish origin, but that those who introduced the Mahometan religion amongst them were converted Jews,

The following is taken from the work of that celebrated orientalist, M. Ruffin: "The Afghans," he says, "had their origin from the Albanians of Asia, who, in consequence of their numerous revolts, were transported from one extremity of Perda to the other, and driven into Khorassan; they were a very warlike people, known under tlie name of Aghvan or Avghan, and made themselves famous in the history of Persia, their Albanian origin is evident by the name itself, for agvan is the Greek word HA'AB."

This opinion, which has been contradicted by several authors, merits nevertheless some attention, because it is in accordance with the custom which the Persian monarchs are supposed to have followed, viz. that of removing from the shores of the Mediterranean or the Black Sea any population that gave them the least uneasiness or apprehension; also that of bestowing upon the Greeks, a considerable number of whom were at all times in the Persian armies, a certain portion of territory, where they were allowed to establish themselves, as a reward for their services. The historians of Alexander have made us acquainted with one of these colonies, and we learn from them that, when that monarch advanced into Bactria in pursuit of Bessus, he destroyed the town of the Brances, the inhabitants of which, descended from Milesian Greeks, he put to death, as a punishment for a crime committed by their ancestors — a most cruel and unjust act.

The opinion of M. Ruffin is in opposition to that of another oriental scholar, M. Eugene Bore, who, in his Letters on the East, thus explains himself on the subject of these Albanians:—

" The Aghovans," he remarks, " were an ancient and distinct people, first brought to our notice by Pompey at the time of his expedition into the Caucasus. The Greeks and Latins, by an inaccurate transcription of their name, called them Albanians; they inhabited the high mountains and the valleys bordering on the Caspian Sea, which now form the provinces of Daghestan and Shirvan. The Armenians were never able to subjugate this brave people, who were governed by feudal laws similar to those which existed in Europe during the middle ages; they were Christians before they adopted the faith of Mahomet, and it is known that they preserved their liberty up to the period of the arrival of Bouzan, general of the Sultan Seljookide Malek Shah. The language of this nation differed entirely from that of the Armenians.
.....In short, we may say that the people mentioned by the Greek authors under the denomination of Albanians cannot, on account of their peculiar language, be considered as of Chaldaean origin—an opinion which is in direct contradiction to that of their historian, Moses Galganderasti, who lived about the ninth century of the Christian era, and who, with Moses of Chorenus, affirms that they are descended from Sisag, of the Armenian race. We hope to clear up this point after having collected from the mountainous district in which these pretended sons of the Aghovans lived, the remains of the language they speak. It is with less reason still that some of the learned, led astray by a similarity of words, have confounded the Aghovans with the Afghans, feudal tribes dispersed over the south of Persia, and who, more than any other, recall to our minds the ancient Parthians. The language of the Afghans is analogous to that of the primitive Persian, and, in the opinion of Sir William Jones, they are neither of Jewish nor Chaldean extraction. The supposition that they were identified with the Aghovans, once formed, has led to the conclusion that they were the descendants of Jews, because the province of Kir, to which the Assyrians transported the captive tribes of Israel, appeared to commentators to be the country watered by the Kour, the Cyrus of the Greeks."

Some persons have with reason affirmed that Tamerlane, exasperated 'at the depredations committed by the people inhabiting Mazanderan, south of the Caspian, transported the whole of them into the mountains situated between India and Persia. But they erred in supposing that from this population are descended the Afghans of our own day, for the posterity of the unfortunate people who were removed to these mountains by the Tartar conqueror form at the present time a small tribe of Elmaks, known under the appellation of Firooz Kohis, after the city of that name (situated about sixty-three miles from Teheran), where they were defeated and taken captive by Tamerlane: this tribe now inhabit the country between Herat and Meimana. Besides, the Tartar warrior and legislator mentions the Afghans, in his Institutes, as a nation which had for many years inhabited the Suleiman mountains, and was much given to pillage.

The Afghan authors who admit the Jewish origin of their nation thus account for the removal of their ancestors to Central Asia: some declare that Afghana, who gave his name to the Afghans, was lineally descended from Abraham and Hagar by Ishmael; others affirm that he was the grandson of Saul; and all think that Bakht ul Nasser must have sent some Jewish prisoners into the mountains of Gour.  These prisoners would soon have considerably increased; and though far from their mother-country, without doubt they would have preserved their faith, which was kept alive by the periodical reception of letters from their countrymen who, more fortunate than themselves, had returned to the Holy Land. Matters remained in this state until Mahomet announced himself as the messenger of God. A Jew, by name Khaled, whom he converted, wrote at this time to his brethren in Gour to give notice of this happy event, and induce them to embrace the new feith; but they, before adopting Islamism, sent several of their chiefs to the Prophet. Amongst these was Keis, who pretended to be descended in a direct line from Saul through forty-seven generations, and Abraham through sixty-five. Mahomet loaded him and his companions with favours, and gave him the title of Malek * Abd-ul-reshid, a rank to which he was entitled as the descendant of the Jewish king. These Afghan ambassadors, now Mussulmans, accompanied Mahomet in several of his wars, and distinguished themselves by many remarkable deeds of valour; nevertheless, with the sanction of the Prophet, and after having received his benediction, they returned to their own homes, accompanied by a few Arabs, and with their assistance succeeded, in the space of forty years, in completely converting their countrymen to Islamism.

  Some authors affirm that Afghana was the son of Khaled; others say he was contemporary with Solomon, and assert that he was one of the principal officers of that monarch.

  These different versions, which do not rest upon any sufficient proof, are very difficult to admit; the Afghans, however, think that they have evidence of their Jewish origin in the following tradition. When Nadir Shah, marching to the conquest of India, arrived at Peshawur, the chiefs of the tribe of the Yoosoofzyes presented him with a Bible written in Hebrew, and several articles that had been used in their ancient worship which they had preserved ; these articles were at once recognised by the Jews who followed the camp. This fact, supposing it to be one, if affording evidence sufficiently convincing to some persons, can only be considered as authority with respect to the Yoosoofzyes; but it does not follow, therefore, that other Afghan tribes are branches from the same stem; on the contrary, everything leads to the conclusion that, although they all speak a common language, the Pushtoo, the tribes are not all of the same origin,—they are distinguished by marked characteristics, moral as well as physical. The Afghans of Kabul consider themselves as Indian Afghans, whereas those of Herat say they are Khorassani Afghans; one tribe repudiates another, and denies its Afghan origin, and there is not the least sympathy between them. We may believe that, being enemies in bygone ages, their union, such as it was, progressed only by degrees, with a view of delivering themselves from slavery, and repulsing the common enemy. The names of Patan, Rohilla, Afghan, which serve at the present tune to designate the Afghan nation, are really those of so many distinct races now confounded in one. If we could admit, as they do, their Jewish origin, we must also suppose that they would, on the spot to which they were transferred, have developed all the characteristics of an enslaved people, humble and degenerate; but such is not the case, for we find the Afghans from the very first, that is to say from the reign of Sebek-Taghee, courageous, and animated by a love of independence—always warlike and energetic, retiring to their mountain fastnesses to escape from tyranny, and leaving them whenever the smallest hope presented itself of seizing lands which they considered they had any right to—it is only a primitive race who could have remained so strongly attached to the soil.

No one has thought of the aboriginal people, nevertheless they must not be lost sight of, for, according to Quintus Curtius and Arrian, the Arians, Arrachosians, and others, were both numerous and brave. The conquests of Alexander did not lead to their extermination ; and it is very natural to suppose that their race has descended to the present day through intermarriages, though in small proportions, with the Greeks who remained amongst them, and afterwards with the Tartar and Persian conquerors who invaded them. However, under all circumstances, there is little affinity between them and these two nations; it is not thus with the Beloochees, with whom they have many points of resemblance, moral as well as physical. In spite of the foreign domination which has weighed upon the Afghans for so many generations, we ought to believe thero when they state that their race has never mixed with any other, for in our day they make no alliances except amongst themselves; and the Afghan who should give his daughter in marriage to a stranger would dishonour himself; this, however, is a remark which in a strict sense applies only to those tribes that inhabit Afghanistan properly so called, for those disseminated through India connect themselves without distinction with all Mahomedan nations.

The natives of India have known the Afghans for centuries under the name of Patans and Rohillas, a designation which they now apply to them ; they also call them Pushtoonees, from the language they still speak; and it is not till the reign of the Sultan Abouseid, of the race of Ghengis Khan, that certain Eastern writers speak of them under the name of Afghan, which is only the plural of the Arab word feghan. This was applied to them because they were always in a disunited state amongst themselves, and continually addressing their complaints to the sovereigns on whom they were dependent; nevertheless the name was but little used till the reign of Shah Abbas the Great, who, tired with their incessant lamentations, ordered them henceforward to be called by that designation only.

There are almost as many classifications of the Afghan tribes as there are Eastern authors who have written on the subject; not only are they not agreed, but they have called each other very hard names to prove their accuracy. Being incompetent to decide which is right, we shall adopt the opinion of Abdullah Khan of Herat as the one most deserving of credit, and we will precede it by giving his view of the manner in which the Afghans were brought to Afghanistan. The following is a translation of his manuscript:—

"The word Afghan is derived from the Arab, that of aoughan from the Persian, and both one and the other are used in Hebrew.

Malek Thalut (Saul) king of the Jews had two sons, Afghan and Djalut—the first was the father of the Afghan nation and gave his name to it. After the reigns of David and Solomon, who succeeded Saul, anarchy divided the Jewish tribes, and this continued to the period at which Bouktun Nasr took Jerusalem, massacred 70,000 Jews, and after destroying that city led the surviving inhabitants captives to Babylon. Subsequently to this disaster the Afghan tribe, struck with terror, fled from Judea and settled in Arabia: here they remained some considerable time, but as pasturage and water were scarce, and both man and beast suffered extreme privation, some of the tribe determined to emigrate to Hindostan. The branch of the Abdalees continued to reside in Arabia, and during the caliphat of Aboo Bekr their chiefe allied themselves to a powerful sheikh, by name Khaled ibn Velid, of the tribe of Korech. The position and condition of the Abdalees was sensibly ameliorated in consequence of the assistance which they obtained from Khaled, but at the period when the Arabs subjugated Persia the Abdalees left Arabia and settled in this new conquest, establishing themselves in the provinces of Fars and Kerman, and here they remained until Ghengis Khan invaded those districts. The tyrannical proceedings of this conqueror weighed with such terrible e£fect on the population, that the Abdalees quitted Persia and, passing by the Mekrane, Scinde, and Mooltan, arrived in India; but the results of this new migration were not more fortunate, for they were scarcely settled here when their neighbours made war upon, and forced them to leave the plains and inhabit the rugged mountains of Suleiman, considered as the cradle of the tribe, and called by them Kooh-Khasseh.* The whole Afghan nation was brought together by the arrival of the Abdalees in the Suleiman mountains, and then consisted of twenty-four tribes, of which, as it has been already observed, Afghan, the son of Saul, was the Neither: this prince had three sons, named Tsera-Bend, Argoutch, and Kerlen, and each of them was the father of eight sons, who gave their names to tiie twenty-four tribes. "

" The greater number of these tribes were scattered over India; but there, instead of increasing, they so diminished that scarcely a trace of any of them is to be found in these days. The only exception to this remark is the tribe of Yoosoofeyes settled in Cashmeer. Nadir Shah, desirous of ascertaining their numbers, issued a decree that each family should bring a spear to his camp, and when these were counted they were found to amount to 600,000: at the present time there would not be half that number. This tribe has for more than thirty years been under the dominion of the Sikhs. Afghanistan, properly so called, is inhabited almost exclusively by Abdalees and Ghildjzyes, and of these we shall speak more especially. The first, although inhabiting every part of Afghanistan, are principally resident in Herat and Kandahar; the Ghildjzyes are estabhshed in the last-mentioned prindpality and Kabul; the Kaukerees near the Bolan Pass; the Baboorees, Nassarees, Lohooanees, and Babees, in Kandahar and Scinde, where they are profitably occupied in commercial pursuits; the Beritchees are in the neighbourhood of Pisheen; the Chiranees and the Moh-munds to the north-east of Kabul; the Benguechees (Sbiahs) between the last-mentioned town and the country of the Hazarahs,—these are divided into four branches, viz. the Bede-kheelee, Chaloozanee, Djajee, and Bertedjee; finally, the Chiranees are to be found everywhere, though in small numbers: the remaining tribes are in India, or have become extinct


"Having only to consider Afghanistan Proper, I will now give more detailed information respecting the Abdalees and the Ghildjzyes, which form the bulk of the population of this country; and as the offshoots in which they are subdivided are tolerably numerous, it will be usefiil to give here a tabular statement, which I have endeavoured to render as accurate as possible.

" The powerful tribe of the Abdalees is known at the present time under the name of Dooranee, which was given to them by Ahmed Shah Suddozye on the occasion of his ascending the throne in 1747. When Nadir Shah ordered a census to be made of the Abdalee tribe, there were 195,000 families, and from these he raised 12,000 excellent cavalry; but the Abdalees have decreased in number since Nadir's time.
...
« The tribe of the Ghildjzyes, from which sprung Mir Weis, Mir Mahmood his son, and Mir Echreff his nephew, had Ghildj, the son of Argoutch, for its founder. Ghildj had two sons, Ibrahim and Thooran, fi^m whom sprung the six tribes that follow....

The primitiye tribe of the Afghans was called taifeh, a word which corresponds with that of nation: the first divisions of this primitive tribe are called fergueh, tribe ; the subdivisions of this, tirehs or branches. Thus the families which are descended from the first generation—Tsera-Bend, Argoutch, and Kerlen—as the Abdalees the Ghildjzyes, the Kaukerees, form the Taifeh, nation ; those which descend from these last, such as the Popolzyes, Barukjzyes, Ibrahim, Thooran, &c., are called Fergueh tribes; and the subdivisions of these (see the above table) are called the Tireh branches.

The Abdalees and Ghildjzyes, by reason of their numerical superiority over the others, and also from the power they have  exercised, and continue to exercise, in Afghanistan at the present day, have arrogated to themselves a certain kind of supremacy over the other tribes, and consider themselves of an origin more noble than theirs: they even refuse to acknowledge their right to the title of Afghan. It is more especially the Abdalee tribe that has put forth, and in the most positive manner, this pretension. Not only do they refuse the title of Afghans—and this even to the Ghildjzyes—but also there is a schism on the subject amongst themselves, and the Zireks affirm that they are of a more noble extraction than the Findjpas. This scornful assumption has often given rise to sanguinary conflicts between them, and is based upon the fact that the mother of Abdal was a legitimate wife, whereas the mother of Ghildj was a concubine, which is, they say, proved by the name which was given him, for Ghildj in Pushtoo signifies bastard.

On the other hand, the tribes of Makoohee and Khaouganee, though of Afghan origin, were not at the outset of the Abdalee tribe, but, by reason of the perfect friendship which always existed between them, the Abdalees adopted them and classed them amongst the Pindjpas, and they have ever since been considered as belonging to that family. After the death of Nadir Shah an occurrence took place which will give some idea of the importance the Afghans attach to their belonging to the most noble tribe.
Ahmed Shah had scarcely founded the dynasty of the Suddozyes when it was nearly overthrown by an intrigue fomented against him by the Serdar Noor Mohamed Khan. Obliged to employ severe measures to repress the evil-disposed, he ordered that ten persons of each tribe taken from amongst the most guilty should be put to death. It was the first time he had shed the blood of his subjects, and the experiment was not without danger, for the Afghans talked of avenging themselves and retaliating upon the Shah and his family; but the sovereign authority triumphed, and from that moment it was admitted by the tribes that the king had the right of shedding blood without any one having the power to question it The Makoohees and Khaouganees had not been included in these acts of severity, on the ground that, not being Abdalees by descent, theur fault was of less magnitude, and therefore it was possible to pardon them; but these tribes, affronted at the exception, withdrew from the Shah's camp. An explanation naturally followed, and Ahmed Shah, to satisfy them, ordered ten Makoohees and ten Khaouganees to be put to death, upon which they immediately returned to their duty, for they considered themselves vilified by the exception that had been made in their fevour.

Independently of the tribes and branches that we have classified, those of the Abdalees and the Ghildjzyes are again subdivided into ao great a number of tirehy or families, and there is so much confusion in these subdivisions, that it would be impossible for an Afghan, even the best informed upon the subject, to give a perfect list of them. There would be no exaggeration in stating their numbers at more than three hundred. These have been formed from time to time when the surplus population of a tribe has been obliged to separate from it and seek a fresh district, or when an influential relative of the chief had some misunderstanding with him and witlidrew from his authority, with those who were attached to his own person. At other times some successful conqueror broke up a tribe, to render it less powerful; each subdivision then took the name of the new chief whose fortunes it followed, but they always looked upon themselves as members of the original tribe, though often separated by considerable distances from each other. These separations are also to be attributed to the fear entertained by the sovereigns of the numerical force of some of the tribes. Shah Abbas the Great was the last who adopted this measure on a large scale; and to secure the permanent tranquillity and stability of the populations to which he had assigned a new territory, he carried a number of hostages with him to Ispahan.

Tbe Abdalees, besides having the name of Dooranees, which they received from Ahmed Shah, are still called Suleimanees, from the mountains whence they came; the district they then inhabited bears the appellation of Tobeh-Maharoof.

Хотя книга старая я думаю зерно истины в рассуждениях и легандах есть. Как и большинство других наций этнически паштуны (самоназвание пактуны) возникли в результате смешения местных племен, всегда обитавших в этой стране и с примесью пришельцев из разных стран, в том числе из Аравии (отсюда легенда о израильском происхождении Абдалитов). Афганцами их стали называть иранцы с Аббас-шаха.
 

Alamak

Цензор
Ахмад-Шах Дуррани (1723-1773 гг) (احمد شاه دراني), также известен как Ахмад-Шах Абдали (احمد شاه ابدالي) — основатель Дурранийской империи, которая является началом современного Афганистана. После убийства Надир-шаха Афшар, он стал эмиром Хорасана, а позже стал основателем и правителем собственной империи. Пуштуны Афганистана часто называют его Baba («отец»)

Ахмад Хан (позднее Ахмад Шах) родился в Мултане, Пенджаб, Пакистан. Происходил из рода садозаев пуштунского племени дуррани, являясь вторым сыном Мухаммеда Заман Хана, главным из клана Абдали.
Я что-то не пойму, клан Абдали входит в более крупное объединение или племя дуррани? Или (как я раньше думал) наоборот дуррани входит в состав абдали?

Кстати, если не ошибаюсь,
ДО ЗАВОЕВАНИЯ НАДИР-ШАХОМ И ВОЦАРЕНИЯ ДУРРАНИ ВСЕ ВЫДАЮЩИЕСЯ АФГАНЦЫ ОТНОСИЛИСЬ К ПОДРАЗДЕЛЕНИЯМ ГИЛЬЗАЕВ - Делийские династии Хильджи, Лоди и Сури и те афганские вожди, которые завоевали Иран в 1720-х гг,
А начиная с Дуррани,
ведущую роль среди афганцев начинают играть те племена, которые НЕ ОТНОСЯТСЯ К ОБЪЕДИНЕНИЮ ГИЛЬЗАИ, за единственным исключением афганских коммунистов
- Хафизулла Амин (пуштун-гильзай, выходец из небольшого пуштунского племени харути (хароти)), Нур Мухаммед Тараки (пуштун-гильзай из клана тарак, ветви буран), Мухаммед Наджибулла (пуштун-гильзай из клана ахмедзаи племени сулейманхейль, его дед был вождём племени Ахмедзай)
 

Neska

Цензор
А мне афганцы (этнические, не воины-интернационалисты) говорили, что Кармаль - таджик...
 

Rzay

Дистрибьютор добра
А мне афганцы (этнические, не воины-интернационалисты) говорили, что Кармаль - таджик...
Предки Кармаля по линии отца были выходцами из индийского Кашмира, которые переехали в Кабул во времена, когда Кашмир принадлежал империи Дуррани. На новом месте они ассимилировались с таджикским сообществом Кабула. Его отец скрывал свое непуштунское происхождение и говорил только на пушту. Мать Кармаля была персиязычная пуштунка из племени Гильзаев. Настоящее имя его было Султан Хуссейн, которое он изменил на похожее, типично афганское имя
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%...%80%D0%B0%D0%BA
 

asan-kaygy

Цензор
Я что-то не пойму, клан Абдали входит в более крупное объединение или племя дуррани? Или (как я раньше думал) наоборот дуррани входит в состав абдали?
Дуррани это новое название абдали.
Абдали имя их предка, а имя дуррани это емнип "жемчужина", принято в 1740-50-х
Дуррани восходят к первому сыну Патана, легендарного предка всех пуштунов, а гильзаи к нему восходят через внучку Патана, чей муж был принц-эмигрант по фамилии Гур (Гурид?)
 

Alamak

Цензор
Виноват, попутал вкладку с Бабраком Кармалем с вкладкой с Тараки
Да, Б Кармаль таки отаджичившийся кашмирец. Хотя "косил" наверное именно под гильзая? Или под представителя какого-то другого племени?

А вот Мухаммед Наджибулла по национальности опять пуштун-гильзай из клана ахмедзаи племени сулейманхейль. Его дед был вождём племени Ахмедзай!

И разобрался с соотношением абдали и дуррани (Хотя Асан-Кайгы уже ответил по этому поводу. Спасибо)
Афганские правители и правительства (1747-2002) http://www.centrasia.ru/cnt2.php?st=1025462706
ДИНАСТИЯ ДУРРАНИ основана вождем пуштунского племенного объединения абдали, племени попользай, рода садозай/, офицером гвардии иранского шаха Надира Ахмад-шахом. Ахмад-шах лично дал всей группе племен абдали новое название - "дуррани" (т.е. жемчужные), ставшее также и самоназванием правящей династии
 

Alamak

Цензор
Но из этого сайта ещё видно, что среди членов Верховного Совета движения "Талибан" (высший коллегиальный руководящий орган) есть 2 гильзая-хотака
Мулла Мохаммед Хасан Ахунд, пуштун-гильзай-хотак. Родственник Омара. Министр иностранных дел (до октября 1999). С окт. 1999 – заместитель председателя правящего Совета движения в Кабуле (М.Раббани) по административным вопросам, пост учрежден в октябре 1999 специально для него. Считается жестким фундаменталистом
Мулла Обайдулла Ахунд – ур-ц Кандагара, пуштун-гильзай-хотак.
Да и Гульбеддин Хекматьяр (1937 г.р.) - пуштун племени харути гильзайского племенного союза, премьер-министр (март 1993-28 июня 1994), фактически до января 1994 г.
Может в ПОСЛЕкоммунистическом руководстве были и есть ещё гильзаи, ибо в этом перечне не для всех указана племенная принадлежность?
 

asan-kaygy

Цензор
Как помню талибы больше пользуются поддержкой гильзаев в современный период, а Карзай вроде Дуррани.
 

Alamak

Цензор
А карланы как себя проявляли в истории и сейчас?
Среди них есть/был кто-то выдающийся?
 

Alexy

Цензор
Так всё-таки, какие именно народы жили в Кабуле, Газне и Кандагаре в 10-13 вв?
В Кабуле наверное какие-то индуисты? Интересно, они были траноязычны, дардоязычны или кафироязычны или индоязычны?
 

Kirill

Военный трибун
В.Я. Белокреницкий об этногенезе пуштунов:

"Генезис пуштунов (афганцев) и формирование ареала их обитания.
Происхождение пуштунов на протяжении длительного времени было предметом споров и дискуссий. В английской и в целом западной литературе нашла отражение версия их генетической связи с десятью потерянными коленами Израилевыми. Легендарным предком пуштунов считается, по этой версии, сын (или внук) царя Саула по имени Афгана. Автор одного из наиболее известных трудов по истории пуштунов видный британский колониальный чиновник и ученый О.Кэрое отмечает, что литературная традиция вести происхождение афганцев от древних евреев обязана в основном рукописи «Махзан-и афгани» («Афганская сокровищница») Ниматуллы, служившего при дворе Великого Могола Джехангира (1) Как и многие другие английские авторы, он, впрочем, не скрывает скептического отношения к легенде. Между тем, среди самих афганцев (пуштунов) легенда пользовалась в Х1Х веке безусловным доверием. Вступавшие с ними в контакт англичане подмечали, что они с гордостью называли себя «бани-израиль» или «бани-бенджамин», подчеркивая одновременно свое раннее обращение в ислам. Ибо, согласно тому же историческому преданию, Кайс, один из потомков Саула в 36-м или 37-м поколении стал последователем пророка Мухаммеда, получив от него мусульманское имя Абдуррашид.
При этом местом расселения афганцев после их бегства из Месопотамии была, по этому преданию, горная страна Гур (современный Хазараджат), расположенная в самом центре Афганистана. Главным аргументом против правдоподобия этой версии служит отсутствие в индоиранском языке пушту семитских влияний.
Отметим далее, что первое упоминание об афганцах содержится в историческом труде «Худуд-ал-Алам», датируемом 982 г. и ставшем известным благодаря русскому переводу выдающегося отечественного ираниста В.Ф. Минорского. К одному из первых также относится упоминание об афганцах знаменитого А.Р. Бируни в его «Ал-Хинд» (Индии) (2)
Согласно утвердившемуся в нашей современной литературе мнению, в основе этногенеза пуштунов лежит древнее население Сулеймановых гор, где, вероятнее всего, в середине I тыс. н. э. образовался союз восточноиранских в своей основе кочевых и полукочевых племен. (3) Эти горы (хребет Сулейман-и тахт) находятся к западу от Инда на территории современного Пакистана. Миграциям пуштунов (афганцев) из района Сулеймановых гор в западном и северном направлениях способствовали опустошительные набеги Чингисхана и его преемников (в XIII в.) и Тимура (конец XIV-начало XV вв.). Пуштуны постепенно заняли Газнийское плато, часть Пешаварской долины, отдельные районы в области Кабул, продвинулись к Кандагару. Их расселение, видимо, сопровождалось ассимиляцией ряда тюркских племен. Считается, что к крупному тюркскому племени халадж (хиладж) генетически восходит пуштунское племенное объединение гильзаев. В формировании некоторых других пуштунских племен приняли участие таджики, родственные им иранские народности и племена (фарсиван), а также индоарийские, индийские народы.
В послевоенной отечественной афганистике представлена и другая точка зрения на генезис афганцев. Согласно ей, основной территорией формирования афганского этноса считаются области Южного Афганистана и Северо-Западной Индии, или иначе говоря, район и Сулеймановых гор, и Газни-Кандагарского нагорья. Процесс этногенеза охватывал также, возможно, Систан и Кветто-Пишинское нагорье. (4) Надо заметить, что гипотезы о сложном генезисе афганцев и специфическом, разнородном происхождении основных групп их племен придерживался ряд английских авторов, в том числе немало сделавший для их изучения в 1870-80-х годах X.У. Белью (5)
Каково бы ни было происхождение афганцев, их выход на историческую арену сопровождался экспансией и завоеваниями. В ХУ-ХУ1 вв. верхушка пуштунских племен и кланов добилась значительных политических успехов на Индо-Гангской равнине. Действуя в союзе с тюрками, афганцы из династий Лоди и Сур правили в Делийском султанате с 1451 по 1526 и с 1540 по 1555 годы. Афганские ханы стали основателями династий правителей ряда североиндийских княжеств (Рампура, Патауди и др.)
В то время как одна часть афганцев боролась за господствующине позиции в Северной Индии, населяющие западные районы современного Афганистана пуштуны приянли участие в политической борьбе в тимуридском государстве с центром в Герате и в персидской державе Сефевидов.(6)
Наряду с расширением зоны обитания пуштунских племен в ХУ-ХУП веках происходило их расслоение на кочевые и оседлые, горные и равнинные, промышлявшие главным образом торговлей (и связанной с перекочевкой на значительные расстояния) и разбоем. В ходе расселения пуштунов в «историческое время», охваченное хрониками и другими литературными памятниками, отмечено изменение некоторыми из них мест традиционного обитания. Так, крупное племя юсуфзаев из района Газни и Кабула переместилось в Пешаварскую долину. Потесненные ими племенные групп продвинулись на север и северо-восток в высокогорные долины отрогов Гиндукуша. Передислоцировались с юга на север из района Пишин-Сиби в долину р. Куррам хаттаки и некоторые другие племена. В то же время литературные памятники середины П тысячелетия фиксируют обитание многих племен (шинвари, афридиев и др.) в тех местах, где они пребывают и поныне. (7)
В начале XVIII в. уже, по-видимому, сложился основной ареал расселения пуштунов. Напоминая поулмесяц, он простирался от района Герата на западе через долину Гильменда и область Кандагар на юге и далее на Кабул и Пешавар в северном и северо-восточном направлениях. В пуштунский ареал входили также исконные земли между Кандагаром, Газни и Кабулом и долиной Инда, включая высокогорные районы протянувшейся с северо-востока на юго-запад Гиндукушской цепи и Сулеймановых гор.
К этому времени относится первая попытка образования афганского государства. Опираясь на поддержку вождей и знати племен, населявших западные и южные районы «полумесяца», предводитель гильзайского племени хотеки (хотаки) Мир Вайс поднял в 1709 г. восстание против Сефевидских правителей. В результате образовалось Кандагарское (или Гильзайское) княжество, просуществовавшее до 1738 года. Афганцы из семьи Мир Вайса некоторое время владели также Гератом. Однако истоки афганской государственности принято связывать с образованием в 1747 г. империи Ахмад-шаха Дуррани, одного из вождей крупнейшего племени пуштунов-абдали. Ему удалось подчинить все основные районы проживания пуштунов (от Герата до Пешавара), а затем приступить к расширению владений и влияния на области Северо-Западной Индии, Восточного Ирана и Южного Туркестана.
Восточные районы расселения пуштунов с центром в Пешаварской долине в начале XIX в. попали под власть сикхского государства в Пенджабе, а в середине века перешли под контроль завоевавших Пенджаб англичан. Во второй половине того столетия по договорам с правителями Кабула (Афганистана) 1854, 1876, 1879 и 1893 гг. к Британской Индии были присоединены населенные в основном пуштунами районы исторической области Белуджистан (Кветто-Пишинское нагорье) и территория горских пуштунских племен по восточному склону горной цепи, разделяющей ныне Афганистан и Пакистан.
В конце XIX века «железный» эмир Абдуррахман-хан проводил политику закрепления северных областей (между Гиндукушем и Аму-Дарьей) за Афганским (Кабульским) эмиратом. Власти осуществляли переселение части пуштунских племен (дуррани, гильзаев и др.) с юга на север. Вторая волна переселения пуштунов за Гиндукуш имела место после 1929 года, в результате усилий нового короля Надир-шаха по укреплению своих позиций на севере и созданию более благоприятных экономических условий для поддержавших его в борьбе за власть пуштунов. В результате в Северном Афганистане сформировались преимущественно пуштунские анклавы, однако считать их частью сплошного пуштунского ареала, очевидно, нет оснований. К пуштунскому ареалу можно условно причислить освоенные ими после окончательного завоевания Хазараджата в 1893 г. некоторые его южные районы, главным образом в провинции Урузган."
 
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